Bathymetric measurements with drones.

Discussion in 'General Drone Forums' started by Adam Buyskes, Jun 13, 2016.

Tags:
Page 1 of 2
  1. Adam Buyskes

    Adam Buyskes New Member

    Jun 1, 2016
    4
    0
    1
    Male
    #1 Adam Buyskes, Jun 13, 2016
    Hi all. I have some questions. I have been playing with the 3d modeling software. I would love to be able to pull of batheymetric surveys over water bodies shallow mainly as this is hard with a boat to complete safely. I have been looking at some waterproof drones that use lidar. Was wondering if anyone knows if it's possible to get depth and position data simply from flying the same grid one would drive in a boat. The current way we do them is using a hummingbird gps sounder. I will have to check on what model we have tomorrow. So we drive a grid and put the collected data into hypack and other software to get our maps.
    The sounder we use needs the transducer to be in water to read depths it is also heavy. So my question is how do I do it with a drone from the air if this is possible. My boss reconds lidar is able to penetrate water and possibly if it can I can gather the data.
    Any input would be greatly appreciated. I am currently flying a phantom 3 standard. I am trying to do the research on what drone if any would best help collect this data.
     
  2. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #2 Jonathan, Jun 13, 2016
    I just remembered after our conversation yesterday that we interviewed a woman talking about a LIDAR system on a drone, skip to 3:17:

    I wonder if that would work?
    They say it's the cheapest LIDAR, but I think it's still quite expensive.
    How much does the hummingbird gps sounder cost that you use? I bet there is a way to strip it down and make it lighter. You could definitely land on water to take a reading, or even just lower the sensor into the water without landing like they do with aircraft looking for submarines.
     
  3. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #3 Jonathan, Jun 13, 2016
    Ok, it seems the LIDAR option may not be viable yet, from Yellowscan in above video "Our systems currently have 905nm lasers which cannot see through water. No ultralight bathymetric LiDAR available yet!"
     
  4. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #4 Jonathan, Jun 13, 2016
  5. Adam Buyskes

    Adam Buyskes New Member

    Jun 1, 2016
    4
    0
    1
    Male
    #5 Adam Buyskes, Jun 14, 2016
    Ok good to know I have just finished dinner and will look at your video. Could sonar be run without landing the drone in the water? I'm a real novice but I have been put to the challenge to make this happen at work.
     
  6. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #6 Jonathan, Jun 14, 2016
    I think it should work without landing.
     
  7. Adam Buyskes

    Adam Buyskes New Member

    Jun 1, 2016
    4
    0
    1
    Male
    #7 Adam Buyskes, Jun 14, 2016
    Ok. This sounds promising. Unfortunately we can spend 34000 dollars on a drone my boss simply won't do it. Can you recommend a platform to use in expensive possibly up to 3000 rather. Dji matrice 100 or inspire. These are not waterproof however. So waterproof would be better. It can have a shorter flight time we will just get more batteries.
    Also have you seen the yeair drone. Not sure if it's out yet but it runs on fuel and batteries. It's cost is 1300 euros and can carry 12 pound payload. What would you think about this. Again it's not waterproof so what would be your advice?
     
  8. Adam Buyskes

    Adam Buyskes New Member

    Jun 1, 2016
    4
    0
    1
    Male
    #8 Adam Buyskes, Jun 14, 2016
    Sorry can not spend 34000
     
  9. Seafax

    Seafax New Member

    May 9, 2015
    19
    1
    3
    #9 Seafax, Jun 14, 2016
    Seems to me doing it from the air is a very high cost and high risk strategy when compared to doing it from an autonomous pixhawk controlled model boat with all the in-built benefits of grid mapping and waypoints etc.

    This guy was developing a system 6 years ago (keep clicking "next post >")...
    http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/ardupilot-goes-into-the-water

    Col.
     
  10. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #10 Jonathan, Jun 14, 2016
    I would like to make something like that myself, but it's only useful on very calm water I think, not very good for the sea or a fast river. I think the advantage of flying is the speed. Having said that I have been looking at OpenROV as a possibility also.
     
  11. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #11 Jonathan, Jun 14, 2016
    Yeah, I don't think you need to spend $34,000. Depending on how light you could make the device a Inspire might do it.
    You may be better just building something and use a Pixhawk as the flight controller, but then buying something that works already might be easier?
    It doesn't have to be waterproof if you don't land on the water, though you can put floats on in case it crashes so it doesn't sink so you can get it back.. or make it so it does land on water, like we eventually achieved in this fun experiment video:

    I was thinking, if we were to stay flying, of something like this simulation:
     
  12. Seafax

    Seafax New Member

    May 9, 2015
    19
    1
    3
    #12 Seafax, Jun 14, 2016
    I currently run this one with an APM controller in the sea. It carries 32,000 MAh lipos, does around 20 mph top speed, and can stay out for over an hour at 16mph. I don't have any sonar (just use it for boat related video) but I think what would probably limit your speed most is what class of radar you used. Some of the cheaper ones can barely cope with 10knots at any decent resolution.



    Col.
     
  13. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #13 Jonathan, Jun 15, 2016
    That looks pretty cool. I was thinking you'd actually be stationary while taking the readings, similar to making aerial models from photographs.
     
  14. Seafax

    Seafax New Member

    May 9, 2015
    19
    1
    3
    #14 Seafax, Jun 16, 2016
    The only sonar I've ever played with was on a 26' catamaran (so I'm no expert by any means) but so far as I know all common types of underwater scanners (including fishfinders) can operate while they're moving - it's just that the cheapest ones do it in such low resolution they wouldn't be worth bothering with. There will also be an optimum speed for each run to figure out depending on variables such as wind and weather, hull stability, sonar type, desired resolution etc. The best way of thinking about it is imagining yourself capturing a set of time lapse images of the ground from a plane which doesn't have the option to stop mid-flight while it takes a photo.

    In calm conditions and with a half decent double beam side scan sonar (say around £500) the boat in my video could record a very detailed track indeed 50 yards wide by 15 miles long in a little under an hour. The biggest single expense for commercial use is likely to be the software necessary for analysing the raw data and offering meaningful ways of manipulating/displaying it.

    Col.
     
  15. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #15 Jonathan, Jun 16, 2016
    I've never owned one of those sonar things for boats so I have no idea what it actually does in terms of data collection? I mean do they save images to an sd card, or some other kind of data, that you can import into software and make a model from? If I knew which model of boat sonar would work I would buy it and test it and share what we came up with on here.
     
  16. Seafax

    Seafax New Member

    May 9, 2015
    19
    1
    3
    #16 Seafax, Jun 19, 2016
    Not all sonar can export their data to SD card (some just display it real time or let you take sceen shots) and of the ones that do you have to get into "what format" their data is exported in. With GPS there are one or two major world standards but it seems that with sonar every tom dick and harry start up company has their own proprietary data format and can't swap data with other manufacturers kit.
    Raymarine is arguably one of the biggest names in professional sonarand so (presumably) would run one of the more common standards, but then there's brand new devices such as as "deeper" (designed for use in kayaking) which is what'd get me excited. I know absolutely nothing about it but that sort of thign is definitely what I'd investigate first.

    https://buydeeper.com/fishing-type-boat-fishing?gclid=CMzg3amJtc0CFdgaGwodLREEoA

    Col.
     
  17. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #17 Jonathan, Jun 20, 2016
    The pro+ one looks promising, only thing is know if it saves the data or not, how good the data is and whether or not it can be used in the software.
     
  18. Seafax

    Seafax New Member

    May 9, 2015
    19
    1
    3
    #18 Seafax, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  19. Jonathan

    Jonathan Drone Expert
    Crew

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,302
    104
    63
    Male
    Drone Aerial Photographer
    York
    #19 Jonathan, Jun 21, 2016
    I saw that it makes bathymetric maps for you, but they don't look very high res.
     
  20. Seafax

    Seafax New Member

    May 9, 2015
    19
    1
    3
    #20 Seafax, Jun 21, 2016
    The resolution will be a factor of how closely together your course plots were. Plots 200 yards apart can't possibly give you the same detail as ones 50 yards apart. I think! :) Don't forget that as a fisherman's aid most of the plots will have been done my casting the sounder out with a rod and winding it back in. Hardly conducive to getting consistent coverage I wouldn't have thought.
     
Page 1 of 2

Share This Page

About Drone Minds

Drone Minds is a forum for users of all types of drones and all skill levels..read more